Dissociation and paranormal experiences
Submitted by Sarsha on Thu, 08/19/2010 - 11:50amI am reading two new books ( I am so ADD about reading. A little here, a lttle there.) One is a diagnostic reference book for DID, which has an interesting chapter on the anthropological studies of DID across cultures. It specifically compares DID with Shamans for their dissociative ability. The entering into trance states, leaving the body, transformation or even possesion of spirit/identity...The difference is that Shamans employ their dissociative ability conciously, intentionally while dissociation by traumatized individuals seems more of a reflex action. Is it possible we could gain control over our dissociative abilities and take it to a more adaptive place? I could be wrong but while dissociated I had numerous instances of fortelling a future event or knowing information that I hadn't yet looked up, but later did. Mental health pro's dismissed this as added evidence to the "Bipolar NOS" theory behind my craziness, delusios of grandeur they said. They didn't feel grand, at the time or now, just scary and confusing. The orderly fabric of time had torn and I was seeing what I wasn't meant to see or know.
Such as the time I told a psychologist about that ability and told her I knew what medication would be prescribed to me. Sudafed, I said. She smiled and said you can bet it won't be sudafed. Later I am being prescribed something by my doctor and she says I'm giving you blah blah blah, it has the added bonus of being an anti histamine so if you have any allergys it should help with those. I thought to myself, You're giving me sudafed??
One of my more recent daydream conversations with my psychologist was of her telling me I had DDNOS and that i may have DID but that that diagnosis couldn't be made unless a mental health pro or other third party witnessed a switch and had met an alter. I went to her office an asked if she and i had had that conversation where she gives me the diagnosis of DDNOS. She said no, and explained that we had talked about the possibility but that a diagnosis of DID can't be made unless someone meets an alter. I suppose I could have read that somewhere and had it in my subconcious, perhaps? I don't know.
I did some research into dreaming and altered states of consciousness and found a term that finally seemed to describe what I was experiencing- daytime hynagogia. Hypnagogic dreaming is a specific type of dream state inbetween being awake and asleep. Most people experience it while going to sleep at night, but daytime hypnagogia sounds more like what I do- a deep level of dissociation where hypnagogic hallucinations occurr. Interesting. Certain people throughout history claim their best ideas come up during hynagogia including Beethoven and Edison. I don't get ideas, the dream images were more of future tid bits and past ones- when I was in one such state I saw myself with blood all over my arms in a castle, the table with a bowl of fruit and a wine goblet. Death before capture, was the thought that came to me. I feel like this was a glimpse into a past life...or maybe just a dream? It felt so real, but then dreams often do.
I'd like to talk to the psychiatric nurse about the incidence of daytime hypnagogia and psychosis, or maybe its a symptom of dissociative psychosis. Just thinking out loud.
Shamanic journeying is very
Shamanic journeying is very very easy for me, I was in a group of shamanic practitioners in LA, all of them had been trained by the Foundation for Shamanic Studies, but I always had a knack for it.
Shamans usually were told they were schizophernia for hearing voices but they control going between worlds - In those cultures if you cannot control going between worlds, you are a shaman, they cal you crazy. So it is about controling your mental state. I have read a zillion books on shamanism.... I did an apprenticeship to a shaman but then realized that Nat nAm leaders want white folks to stop stealing their religion and so I stopped out of respect.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
The post i thought I put
The post i thought I put here disappeared. I think maybe what I do is write a post and then navigate away to another post without finalizing my reply. Anyway, what I wrote this am was really awesome and insightful, take my word for it ;)
What I was thinking about was a weathervane versus a windmill. I like thinking about metaphores, I hope it doesn't sound contrived. A weathervane is buffeted by the wind, a windmill harnesses the wind. Then some people don't feel the wind at all, or respond to it at all. I think on the weekend I felt like a weathervane...so for me the wind is huge emotional intensity and the universe and all the forces that are at work, spiritual forces, your own emotions, whatever you believe. And lately it seems bigger than myself, like not just my unconscious mind but forces outside of myself that are acting on me. Anyway, feeling like a weathervane is being crazy. Feeling like a windmill is being in control, and harnessing your sensitivity, using it as power. And sometimes, you need to turn it off. If you have control, or even as an unconscious reflex (dissociation?) you need to turn the windmill off and then it has the strength to not be buffeted by the wind when you choose. On the weekend, I felt like a weathervane, and I had to exert all this energy to turn it off, nail myself down, because it was too much and I couldn't go to work and it was making me scared.
And then with this I think of people like myself until recently, who don't feel the wind at all or don't respond to it...you're permanently disconnected from this powerful force, so this is not desireable either necessarily or those people may be missing out.So when you are a weathervane and going crazy, I don't know how to consciously nail it down, though, how to turn it off, but I was able to do it over the weekend, mostly by really restricting stimuli, no tv, read bland benign fiction, rest, don't answer the phone, don't be introspective, don't go out, do really clear, task related activities, don't speculate, don't go online, don't explore open ended questions...that was what worked for me, I guess, but it took a number of days. But I don't have visions or hallucinations or feel I can travel, or I haven't yet. i just get super-sensitive, like hyperarousal, I am easily startled and also I cannot filter, I cannot focus. If I go out, I'm afraid I will make a mistake, be rude to someone or step in front of traffic, just because there is so much information firing at me from everywhere, and my emotions are so intense, and I am so super-responsive to every stimuli, that I cannot filter unneeded information and my brain cannot focus on the appropriate details that relate to me, and I feel like this big gaping raw nerve. Maybe you two know of a name for this, you seem more familiar with diagnoses and symptoms...but I almost don't want to know what it is. Is this bipolar? I almost don't want to know, because if I can manage it without meds, it is just something about me and it doesn't need to be a symptom. All I know is in the past it generally leads to a psychotic break, but in and of itself it isn't psychosis, I don't believe. It's only when I go over the edge and get paranoid as well that then clearly I am psychotic. So this weekend I was able to not go over the ege by nailing down the weather vane. Not sure if this makes sense in terms of what you experience, Sarsha.
Just to clarify, I don't get
Just to clarify, I don't get super duper crazy alot it was only the one time really, last february. Thats the experience that I keep refeerring to. And then recently when I was off of anti psychotics, lowering my ad's and reading lots of books about trauma i started to feel it coming on again with the vivid daydreams that look real and spacing out intensively, not hearing people who are standing next to me calling my name. I didn't and don't have the skills to bring myself back from that edge, nor am I a shaman and definately can't harness that sensitivity. So I went back on the drugs, and feel a little lobotomized, although I know I am feeling the way millions of people feel everyday who are not so sensitive.
In that respect, the drugs are fun. I feel like i can relate to my friends better, simply because I am usually so tuned in to very subtle things in the environment hat they have screened out, that its hard to pay attention to what they are paying attention to. We're just not on the same page, sometimes. Peepho, you should read The Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine Somebody(i forget). So so good. I read that book when I was 19 and wondering who am i and why. And there it was. Actually the funny thing is, I was so ashamed of being a sensitive person that I used to hide the book under the mattress rather than keep it on my bookshelf. I finally just got rid of it. How funny is that. I'm writing myself a note right now to find that book again, its been awhile.
Hold on I can't remember what I was saying...
oh okay I was nt saying
oh okay I was nt saying anything. Sorry I have a head cold and feel weird.I'll have to come back to this later...
For me, what I mean when I
For me, what I mean when I think of harnessing the energy or sensitivity or whatever, is in areas such as...using intuition to guide you...creativity/art...empathy...there must be more but that's all I came up with. So ways of being more sensitive to my benefit. But sometimes it is overload, like today I felt some of the instability I felt last weekend, but really only a small fraction of it, and this time I got literally about 8 ideas for paintings, like I mean good ideas, interesting ideas that i could see myself following through with. Sometimes I think I might be hypomanic. So this is good crazy but it verges on annoying/unnerving in that during this period of creativity I am pretty sensitive, so if something bad happened it would slay me, and also the ideas are almost pestersome in their insistance and frequency, so I do look a little crazy walking down the street, then stopping every 5 minutes and sitting down on something to jot in my sketchbook. I just feel a bit on edge, and unsafe. During the work week I don't feel it so much because it forces me to focus, so it is good I have a day job.
My intuition is strongly telling me someone I know is a threat...ie not in a paranoid way but just in some bad signs like he seems a bit possessive/controlling even though we are not dating, and he scares me slightly. Maybe he is harmless, but I'm going to listen to this, I'm just going to find ways to distance, neutralize. He makes me uncomfortable, so regardless this is fine, clearly my choice, but something is telling me to really try to sever the tie...so just an example, this stuff I think I couldn't access before, and it makes me happy that I can, but with all this goes some sense of danger of...instability? The world feels a bit threatening. and I am really sensitive to caffeine I think and as well, going through antidepressant withdrawal, so many issues.
Urgh, and I can't see the post above so I've lost track of the thread, sorry.
Ok, yes I am interested in
Ok, yes I am interested in that book, and honestly, the way it seems right at this moment which is for me a rare moment of balance, I find I relate better to others when on less meds. So that is different between us. Or, no scratch that, I'm not sure...it's that today for instance, I went out with 2 friends I know and 2 I just met and that is kind of rare socializing for me, and I just felt present most of the time, I felt calm, I could listen to the other people and really see and hear them a lot more clearly, I think. Before, I was so wrapped up in my own stuff, even when on meds, like there's this constant inner dialogue going on and I can't listen to others. So to clarify, I see three points for me along the continuum: 1. I am wide open, overwhelmed, can't focus, threatened, confused, crazy 2. I am at a good balance, I am sensitive to others and respond to them, and I am authentic to myself, I don't sway from who i am to please others. 3. I am completely closed on myself, constanltly engaging in inner dialogue, when I communicate with others it's like a drowning person. I am not calm enough to hear others. At the same time I am completely unaware of my true self, absolutely oblivious, so I am easily swayed in this state. But I was like this on more meds, but I'm not sure if the meds had much to do with it, ie just a cooincidence. Yeah I think that's more it, the meds are a side issue for me, I think I started going off the meds because the other selves started waking so I started thinking for myself and then made the decision to go off meds. Does this make any sense? because I'm kind of confusing myself, I really don't get it, i'm just talking about it to try to figure it out. Anyway, that is how it has been for me...
When you get your dreams or visions, just curious, what are you feeling? Doing you have a sense of that? Are you panicking because what you're experiencing is strange, or are their other feelings? Don't worry if you'd rather not go into it.
I had to read that like five
I had to read that like five times to understand it. Thats very intresting what you describe on medication sounds like what I experience off of medication. I hope that doesn't mean I am supposed o be on meds forever. Damn.
The dreams/visions whatevers feel totally normal. I think the first time I went crazy the PTSD was more of an issue for me. I paicked about everything, and definately over the visions. But I think they are a seperate issue from that anxiety. My doc says PTSD brings out bipolar or any predisposition towards psychosis, and this is what they think it is. Recently whe I went off my meds the visions and spacing out returned, no panicking no flashbacks. There was some discussion amongst selves about putting the five year old in a room with no windows and no doors. That way she can't mess with my reality. Anyway. No they feel more like having a daydream. only usually day dreams are imaes we control, so i guess its more like a regular dream that happens in the day. Except tht nothing weird happens in them. Like in a regular dream at night, the room will look ackwards or certain details are out of sync. Nonsensical things happen. The dreams have stayed very true to reality, usually even picking up on a conversation where it was left off in real life, the only bizarre aspect to them is the appearance of my other selves in them.
In one such dream conversation I was talking to my therapist and I told her about how I had been afraid that my ex-boyfriend would kill me. I said I tought I was going to die. And she said "But you didn't die. Do you realize that? That you didn't die?" On one level I thought what is she getting at of course I know I didn't die. But something about the statement struck me, and I still don't really know why. Maybe my self of then thought I was dead?
Anyway. What do you do to balance that sensitivity teeter totter? I am very careful about what kind of social situations I get myself into. I like people, but crowds are really hard. And if I do want to go to a crowd, like the farmers market, I plan ahead to make it a quick trip. or find a quiet spot and be still. When I was 21 I had to get drunk before going out with friends to be able to handle going out to see some music or something. Or not drunk, but you know, buzzed. Not a good coping mechanism. Have any better ones?
Those three states of being
Those three states of being - Yeah, uh, yeah yeah yeah yeah.
I had to get buzzed too to be social at some points in my life. Now my trick is this: Most people want to talk about themselves. Endlessly. I always got nervous that people would ask about me and then think I was weird, but now I see that if I just ask questions and nod a lot, people think I am wonderful. I think it is my new way of having boundaries - Get to know someone before overwhleming them with details of my insanity.
I have thought I died at times. I have had a very hard time with knowiing that things like the rape happened to me, not some girl who was always being raped nonstop somewhere inside me. Once I got furiously rageful about this, the sense of it being a her not a me went away and I felt much more whole than ever. This shocked my psychiatrist but rage is what united me with that memory and made it real and me whole. It is weird when you're walking around going, "I am dead right? Do they see me?" I think it is a form of disscoiation. But I don't know.
Well trauma supposedly messes up your brain chemistry, so if you weren't born with a biochemical issue like bipolar trauma can change your brain. I don't know why they think this though, since there are no tests of brain chemistry.
Visions for me are usually very clear. I decide when to have them. I go into trance and have them. Sometimes I go with an intention, that's the way everyone tells you to do it so you don't get lost or end up with weird things talking to you. I went off antipsychotics because I went into trance and a Gaulish God I work with said, "Get off that drug" and I was shocked and decided to do it, and low and behold, I had the beginnings of tartive dysconesia. I went into trance and asked who my spiritual community was, and saw these awful people who were so abusive and crazy in LA, and I was like "WTF?" but I rejoined the national organization, and ended up through that meeting the people I worship with and like here. I can tell when it is a vision when it is stuff I wouldn't have thought of on my own, when it doesn't support my world view. tarot reading is the same, I am always horrified by what I tell clients because I totally do not agree with it, but it's always right in the end thus proving my opinion and advice isn't so wise. I don't know what is doing the Tarot readings for my clients, but it isn't me.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
Oh yeah the test for bipolar
Oh yeah the test for bipolar - the only pone they really have to prove bipolar - is if being on an antiD makes you manic. If you have BP an unopposed antiD will very quickly make you hallucinate and get violent and stop sleeping all together. If you don't have that on antiDs then it ain't bipolar.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
how do you intentionally go
how do you intentionally go ino a trance state? Maybe I can learn to do this while on meds. That way when I am off of them I can control the trance better. Like training wheels.
I had to re-read my own post
I had to re-read my own post to remember what I was trying to say, and now I don't exactly agree with myself, anyway. I think I was trying to simplify and explain something that is really complicated and that I don't really understand myself. I know for me, when I'm "wide open", it's when I feel chaos around me and I can't filter...at those times, lately, I stay away from others. I am so glad I live alone, and I just stay away, and work on simple practical tasks. When I feel like that, I have to avoid all stress and stay by myself until I feel more stable. The rest of the stuff, I just don't know right now. I almost always have trouble with socializing. I'll have to read my post again at another time, maybe it will make sense then but possibly will never make sense...