Wait, what if I am healthy?
Submitted by Awen on Fri, 08/20/2010 - 2:47pmOMG. I had the weirdest therapy thing happen yesterday. First I should say that when I first met with Dawn the social worker she asked me if I could talk about my feeling without using technicial terms, can I just say "I feel shitty?" and I was angry and said "No, because if I don't use precise wording, then I'll get a diagnosis that isn't what I want."
YESTERDAY (I am still in awe of this): I start telling her about being raped and how it was how I lost my virginity and how he was the guy who took care of me for years, and then I said, "I am sure it all sounds like I am making huge connections in my thinking as I speak but really, I have this story memorized, I am saying all this for you - I KNOW this you don't, so I am wasting my life repeating this shit to therapists forever. I KNOW this stuff." So she said, "Then let's get to the skills. I want you to list 5 things you cannot do because of PTSD. Then write down why you cannot do them. Then write the emotions and physical feelings that occur with it." Dawn is big on the body cues. However, I have none. Anyway. Her example "I cannot swim, I have panic attacks, I feel terror, my stomach churns and I get a head ache."
This wounds great, we're actually zooming in on the real stuff!
Oh yeah huh. I don't know what the issues/problems are. I thought I knew, but they are ones I have READ about not actually had I think.
I was going to say I cannot work - But guess what? I could work til I was drugged senseless and told I had bipolar. And a lot of my problems I thought were BP or PTSD went away with ADHD medication working.
So uh, what cannot I do now?
And it hits me. I have internalized the diagnosis I have read so much, whenever I read one I end up in the hospital with those symptoms. I talk about myself in DSM terms. I become the diagnosis. So they give me whatever diagnosis and I just make myself fit it. I believed I had rapid cycling and mixed mania. But I don't. So do I have dissociation? Do I have flashbacks? I will say when I first was diagnosed PTSD I read the diagnosis every day for 6 months and never saw anything I could relate to in it at all. Now I carbon copy myself into being it. I decide that this experience that was mixed mania is now a flashback because that's what I now am supposed to have.
On the ADHD medication, maybe I can drive? maybe I can work? Maybe life is easier? All the reast of my life is easier on it. So maybe the other things - maybe they are not a problem anymore? Why am I doing therapy for symptoms the DSM 4 told me to work on when I don't remember having them til I read the book? Why am I doing therapy for issues that were there before ADHD medication but may not be there now?
What if I am not a diagnosis but instead am something much more interesting like a person?
I have been freaking out about a desperate need for skills therapy because I was told what my symptoms were and then told skills would fix them. Hmmmm. But what if the symptoms were not there to begin with? And I have been forcing myself to be what the doctors need me to be so they can "fix" me?
DBT classes did help a lot though.
When doctors ask me if I have had that symptom or this one, I say yes usually maybe because I am creative and I think "I can see feeling that, sure". My Mom is the one who lately is saying to me "I don't think you do that." I mean, I tried to get into an eating disorder clinic when I was 21 because I assumed I had to have an ED because I was a satanic ritual abuse survivor. Well I wasn't either of those things.
I am worried that therapy and workbooks and doctors and day programs have put all these untrue idea sin my head.
So I am trying to think "What do I really experience as me?" and it's weird, to do it without the DSM 4 guiding me.
Scary but exciting. Me describing me. What a freaky idea.
Really interesting, what a
Really interesting, what a realization. I think none of us is really textbook, anyway. I don't think I get flashbacks either, I'm not sure. i think a lot of the skills therapies are probably things anyone could benefit from, it's just that people with trauma really need them. I think nothing is really black or white, few people really fit cookie-cutter into any catagory, and there is a continuum in a lot of areas. Your therapist's excercise seems like an awesome way to self-assess...I need to think of that in my own life. Do you feel a sense of not really existing? I only ask because of what I experienced in the past...I think it made me really suggestible. For me it was I think that I was so removed from parts of myself, dissociating, whatever, that I was grasping at straws in order to define myself. So if someone said to me, "you seem like the sort of person who would like such and such." I'd think, yeah I guess so, I guess that's who I am, and then I'd try to fit into that idea of myself, because it made me feel secure to have that sense of who I was. The real truth is I had a really hard time knowing, I found it so hard to listen to what was really inside me, it was just so easily drowned out. I think also it was just a lifetime of negating myself, so I couldn't accept my likes or dislikes because I felt so bad about myself. Like how can I say I don't like seeing movies, that's just so ridiculous, I can't say this about myself! This still goes on today, but I feel a little clearer. I spend lots of time alone partly so I am not so drowned out by others, I just start not to exist. This may be different for you, but I have been really suggestible too in some ways, not so much for symptoms but in other areas...
This is exactly what I am
This is exactly what I am wondering with the voices I have heard-I've interpreted them as other selves but am I being influenced by my reading material? Stories of DID catch the imagination. I want to set up therapy sessions with the main goal of sorting out whether or not I am Bipolar or DDNOS or Schizophrenic or what. I realized I need to be really careful explaining things to the therapist or whoever, not to use the terms but go out of my way tofind my own language that describes my experience the long way. For example saying "images of blah blah blah rushed through my head" instead of "I had flashbacks."
And then theres the flashbacks that I had, of child abuse that I never remembered. My mom has told me all my life since I was a little kid that I was molested by my dad, something she made up to make me hate him, I guess. Could suggestibility have implanted that idea into my head so much that I had flashbacks? I'm not sure. (he was not the abuser in the flashbacks I had , by the way).
Diagnostic language and cold logic can be such a refreshing change in the pain of confusion and not knowing. I am trying to teach myself to say I dont know. I don't know much of anything really. Its a little mind blowing to think about the vast quantites of I Don;t Know that are in my brain. No wonder I cling to whatever box they want to give me. I just mean to say I can relate to what you are saying very much, and wonder what would that mean for you if you were you and not c-ptsd or bipolar or whathaveyou? How would things be different? I'd be interested to hear how this evolves for you.
It really means a lot to me
It really means a lot to me that you two can relate to this. My Mom was a therapy addict, she was obsessed with how therapy would solve ANY problem when I was little, so I kind of grew up with therapy as a religion in my home. I think it made me give power over to others.
I am doing process of elimination. I know I don't have bipolar because I have never been manic, they mistook the ADHD hysperactivity for hypomania. My doc says if I had bipolar then medication would have stabilized me. It didn't: hence not bipolar. If it is a chemical thing, then drugs will fix it, if drugs don't help, it ain't chemical. And in two years off those medications, I am much much much much saner. Anyway, ADHD medication actually does work really well, so I can safely say I have ADHD.
The PTSD stuff, I think I have PTSD or C-PTSD, yes. But remember, there's no actual thing called PTSD. It's not like our brains caught it! It doesn't exist. It's a term of random grouping of experiences, like all DSM 4 stuff. The DSM is very new and very controversial. It's not a science at all in any way. But I know for a fact I have had depersonalization where I could see through my body, I get scared and the world turns grey, and I get scared and I see spots and my heart races. So there is some anxiety there. And I have had trauma, but it is so mixed up with what my daily life was like then, it is hard to seperate what was traumatic. Things I used to think were funny or romantice or cool about my past now seems pathological and abusive. If someone hit me and raped me in an alley I think I'd bbe ablke to see the trauma better, but when the rapist is your best friend who protects you and always takes care of you, but also abuses you - It gets weird. I have had to reframe my past. And I am not sure what the truth is. My old therapist Gerri used to really work with me on ambiguity and grey areas. That is the hardest trauma to work on for me. Because I cannot say I feel ONE WAY about events, there are many levels of interpretation about them. The diagnosises I have given myself and been given, they tend to be ways to explain the past for me, when I don't think it is simple like that.
DID is weird, because I think really you need to have actual different personalities that don't know each other, or can be seen by others as not "you" - And sometimes when people have flashbacks and are triggered they feel like they are that 5 year old self again, but it's not DID, it's just a flashback. I am not sure how they distinguish this stuff, it seems vague to me. My friends with actual DID have very chaotic lives because so little communicating is going on between selves. They have to have different outfits and foods and stuff like that for all the selves.
I used to talk about my inner teenager when talking about the rape stuff and ppeople thought I was DID, so I learned to not talk that way. But 20 years ago the inner child thing was encouraged so I get frustrated and scared - what words do I use to get them to hear what I am saying?
I have had a hard time with identity stuff though always because my Mom was very rescuing, she'd always tell me what I felt and why. It was total projection of her shit, and so we got very emeshed, and I never learned to have a me that's mine. My reality has always been described by someone else.
I know I have depression and the AntiD is a life saver and I have PTSD and I have severe anxiety issues. But what it is from, I am not so sure, I don't want to be led by a therapist based on my diagnosis and not who I am actually for real.
Sigh. Nice to hear your feelings on this. Thanks.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
Okay, one more point that
Okay, one more point that just hit me: why are diagnoses static? I mean, the way Heather you describe PTSD as a grouping of symptoms, and everything else in the DSM, so why is the assumption made that if you are one thing, then you stay with that the rest of your life? it's so stupid. Unless they conduct a study that lasts the life-time of a person, how do they know a person schizophrenic now is schizophrenic in 40 yrs? The medication traps us, if we accept that we will need it all our lives. Can I have PTSD today but not in 5 years? Why the hell not? Why do we trap ourselves in this? Is this why so many people on here experience misdiagnoses? Is it because psychiatry is so pessimistic as to assume people do not change, when in fact we do?
Well actually a diagnosis if
Well actually a diagnosis if PTSD is expected to go away. It usually does on its own I think. It's not chemical, it's a situational thing and a lot of people just get over it. Something like bipolar or schiozophernia is supposed to be biochemical - you were born with it although often it doesn't materialize until puberty when the hormones kick into gear. So those don't go away but can be "managed" with therapy and medication like diabetes. Have you gotten that lecture? The "this is like diabetes so take the insulin/medication"? PTSD isn't a lifetime sentence like bipolar is. When they thought I had bipolar it was just "take the pills and try not to go crazy" and when they realized it was PTSD they said "Screw the pills, get therapy and work it out and go have a life."
Misdiagnosis is because there is no test for mental illness, no blood work. They are guessing that's all. They have a book made in 198- from one school of thought's doctors who were trying to get rid of the opinion people had that psychiatry was not a real science. So they made the DSM to try to look like there was some standard of what is going on in the brain. But the DSM changes all the time as they get info on brain scans and treatments. So if you see a doctor are talking fast and not sleeping well, like I was, they say "bipolar" but now they might not because it is now known that adults have ADHD which back when I was younger they didn't know. If you see a doctor who asked about trauma you might get a trauma diagnosis, if not, you might get a BPD diagnosis. It's all very random. There's no test for anything. At all. They are trying to pick a description that matches best what you are telling them and what they are observing. But until women wree involved in psychology, our needs were misunderstood and misintrepreted - Freud thought women wanted to fuck their Dads and didn't know that they were victims of incest. So the diagnosis changed when women started talking for themselves in the 70s with feminism.
So if you saw a doctor in the 1990s and got a diagnosis that diagnosis might not even be in the DSM 4! Or as new info comes out a new diagnosis that makes more sense might be found. And what doctor you see will determine what they look for. So if it is a doctor who works with ADHD a lot, they'll be looking for that, but if they work with BPD they'll be looking for that. It's not that YOU changed, it's that the symptoms they were looking for or how they explained the symptoms has changed. Insomnia might mean Bipolar, ADHD. PTSD, generalized anxiety disorder, sleep apena - Ot could be anything. Have you read the DSM? It's hard to work with. Most doctors and therapists I know say that it's pretty fictional, that no one really HAS anything in it, it's just a starting point. I don't think I have seen anyone in a few years that thinks that diagnosis is for anything besides insurance companies actually. You have to tell insurance what is wrong with someone to justify the money. Depression is not a good reason for them to spend money on therapy forever, but bipolar is because therapy for bipolar is cheaper than hospitalization, so a bipolar diagnosis gets you insurance paid for therapy. So if you are wanting better services, it can help to have a worse diagnosis.
It is not like you have cancer or allergies or an ear infection. There's no test and no way to really know what is happening biochemically. it's all guess work. Nothing else. They just try every drug they can and hope to God that something works, nothing more. They really have NO IDEA what drug will help either, sonce everyone is different. I had thought that you get a DSM diagnosis and then that tells them what drug and therapy will fix me. Nope. It just gives them an idea of what symptoms you have. nothing more. There are no gauerentees. So you have to have a pretty hopeful atttitude of nonattachment. Try everything til something works and then do that. It would be nice if there were people who had a cure but there are not. In the 1990s PTSD was supposed to be cured with regression therapy - Now they know that retraumatizes people and makes it worse. So maybe this CBT stuff will be shown to not work longterm one day. Who knows?
I guess we have to not get hung up on getting "better". It just is what it is. Find ways to live with it as best you can, but know your way is going to be different than anyone else's.
They do not know what causes these "mental illnesses". It's all theory. But as they look at brain scans,. they are starting to see what happens and that's helpful. A brain scan would show you being triggered for instance. Bipolar has been described since the Greeks, so it proably does exist as a biochamical thing. ADHD was never described until the 1950s so it might be that until kids had to sit in classrooms, no one noticed it, or maybe it is created by pesticides or something in the water or womb? PTSD has been described by all cultures from time immeorial when describing soldiers - our culture called it shellshocked for WW2.
The brain is just very complicated and wired very delicately. They do not understand it. So keep in mind it is all theory.
Also - most psych freshmen in college diagnosis themselves with EVERYTHING they read about - it is normal to do that. And most therapists become therapists because they had some issue they got help with from therapy and hence can often project it onto you if they aren't a good therapist. I have that happen a lot. Therapists usually have the most messed up childhoods there are.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
Oh, yeah. I've got the
Oh, yeah. I've got the insulin lecture for sure. I guess a good comeback would be to point out that many cases of diabetes can be managed with diet, ie, lifestyle change. Little-known veterinary fact to arm yourself with: cats with diabetes can sometimes revert to normal, unexpectedly, resulting in insulin overdose!
I have never read the DSM. I have read a couple interesting books on medical history, which have demonstrated 2 facts to me:
1. Doctors always think they are right.
2. History always proves them wrong.
Argh! I am so cynical sometimes, it sickens me! What is the cure for cynacism?
I don't know what I would have access to if I had a clear diagnosis. My current insurance through my work pays %100 of my prescriptions, and will throw in $20 per visit for some other therapies, like accupuncture, psychologist, etc. A psychologist must be a phd and therefore costs about $150 a visit (wow, $20 off!). OHIP pays for my pdoc's services.
Therefore, taxpayers together with private medical insurance will fully fund me to be mentally ill and medicated the rest of my life, but if I want to get well, I foot the bill myself. I wish I could be reimbursed in some way for a lifetime of meds!
Oh, sorry for all the bitterness, but it helps to get it out!
Just to clarify, I wasn't
Just to clarify, I wasn't saying I do have DID, I understand what it is and don't see some of the key symptoms - I don't have headaches, lose large amounts of time, or discover new items in my home I don't remember buying. But I do think that the moment that I've written about before when I turned into a five year old really happened for a fact and was not just a flashback. I don't think this is necessarily an alter though, I'm betting more on it being an ego state, a less developed "personality" or alter. People can and do have these without having DID. Hopefully when I see a shrink she'll be able to help me figure out what that means, but I don't think I am that far off.
The therapist who takes Medical called me back to say she isn't accepting new clients. I am thinking of applying for a credit card and putting it to use buying therapy sessions with a private therapist. Shoot, I can even sign up for the mileage plus program and get free airplane tickets! So thats my new plan. Debt for mental health. As good a reason as any really.
When you say "therapist" you
When you say "therapist" you are referring to someone other than a pdoc? So your pdoc is covered by Medical? I don't know if I fully understand the system where you are. If you find the info on that book you mentioned, would you put it on the list? Not directly related to trauma, but...
The thing that annoys me about how the way these postings work is, when you are replying you can't scroll up to more than the most recent post in the thread.
I realized recently that
I realized recently that this discussion board is set up not so much as one long thread but so that you can set up a new sub-topic within any blog (add new comment, at the top of the page). Any comment started can be replied to and any reply can be replied to at anytime. so it kind of sucks when you want to reply to what three people said all in one breath, but what you can do is click reply to any comment and interject in that discussion. Different from the icarus boards.
Thats funny, I've been scratching my head over the word "pdoc" this whole time too. I think you mean the psychiatrist who prescribes you medication right? My psychiatrist doesn't do any therapy or skills or even referrals at all. I have no idea if that is typical-this is my first psychiatrist. For therapy and referrals I talk to counselors- psychologists, LCSW's, MFT's and the like MediCal is state insurance that you get free if you are low income enough. It pays for alot of things medicine related really good coverage with prescriptions but apparently not cost effective for private therapists to be on it? And no dentists. Its a crazy world. I'd love to better understand what Canada's universal health system is like, I always imagined it to be the magic land of free and clear healthcare and waterfalls of beer. No?
Yeah, I thought that was the
Yeah, I thought that was the way everyone referred to their "psychiatric doctor", I picked it up somewhere online, ok clearer to say "shrink" i guess?
Sometimes Canada just seems like America watered-down, with the up-tightness of the british added on. And we used to be peacekeepers and now we have Stephen Harper who is embarrassing and stands in the way of any constructive move attempted by other nations...It seems like US health care is different based on different states, I am not sure how it compares, and here it is different by province to some extent I guess. I think it is a really good system for the most part, but in mental health it is faulty in that I am finding it so hard to get help that is not psychiatric. If I were spectacularly unwell, I don't know, maybe I would qualify for more types of therapy. I haven't really learned to work the system, Heather seems to know more about that than I. LSCW's, MFT's, I dont' know what that means.
Everything is really pretty much funded, for everyone, and recently they added a small fee when you pay your income tax, based on your income, which for me comes to about $300 annually...absolutely worth it, any service, emergency care, really anything except dental and optometrists, and I guess any mental health modality other than psychiatry is not covered. Beer? Oddly, our liquor laws are fairly restrictive as in we cant' drink in public places like parks...
Oh shit, I thought a shrink
Oh shit, I thought a shrink was a therapist!
LCSW-Licensed Clinical Social Worker
MFT-Marriage and Family Therapist
They both just have a master's degree.
I wish they had that system here. California is better than most places, but I just got in a surfing accident and had to go to the urgent care for x rays and man am I scared of the bill. Who needs a credit card to go into debt? not me.
I just learned what pdoc
I just learned what pdoc means this year. Yeah psychiatrists in the US usually do nothing but write your scripts. Some do therapy, but very very very few. Most people I know don't have psychiatrists and see psychiatric nurses because they are cheaper for insurance, but they always have turned me away saying they don't understand my medications.
I hate LMHC - licensed mental health counsellors, I like psychologists because they actually have studied psychology and I like LCSWs because they tend to have a more poltical outlook on this stuff. I tell people that LMHC might as well have had their degree come with breakfast cereal in a box.
Canada's health care is AWESOME - well, Ontario's, I heard bad stuff about Quebec. You just swipe this card and bammo services! No paperwork! here it's a mess with trying to find who takes your insurance and what your insurance covers, it confuses the hell out of me. But therapy in Canada is not covered at all - I got $15 therapy at the Catholic Charity place in Rosedale. No, the therapists are not Catholic! Catholic services tend to be pretty good and always cheap. In LA I got therapy cheap at Fuller Seminary, a masters program in psychology whose students see you. But in canada I had to pay for my medication, only $90- every 3 months but that $90 was HARD to find.
Beer is expensive there. But the cops were always so blase about pot, it's not a big deal there.
Some people use shrink to mean therapist - some for psychiatrist - I am not sure what it is meant to mean! I got confused by that all my life.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
this is from "wiktionary"
Noun
shrink (plural shrinks)
[edit] Usage notes