Worst Night. Cops Do Not Help
Submitted by Awen on Tue, 08/10/2010 - 10:35amI agree with your psychiatrist Sarsha, actually. I did Ressurection After Rape - a great book - on my own even though the book said not to, and it made my symptoms climax. I ended up in the hospital and it was a very dangerous time, I was so gung ho about getting better, I pushed myself. I wasn't safe, I didn't have a place to process what I was reading. The end result was good - I was able after the hopsitalization to see that the rape happened to me and not this poor 14 yr old stuck in a time warp that I couldn't help, just watch her being raped endlessly, but it should have been something I got safer. I personally do not have any sense of what is safe for me. I am so dissociated, I have no sense of what I am feeling, and when I do feel they could be totally from the past and wrong, so I never know what is abusive, what is hurting me - If I feel normal then it possibly is a very abusive situation and if I feel terror it may be that nothing is hurting me and I am dying inside of fear waiting for it to happen. I feel worthless. These things make it unsafe for me to drive, date or work. I am such a loser.
Last night I saw my new therapist and I told her about the murder I saw and she said "You must feel like a bad person for not trying to stop that." WHAT? I said, "No" and she said "Then it wasn't traumatic" and I said "Yes it was because I knew then that i could be murdered." She made me feel like such a terrible person for not trying to stop a murder that was spontateous and i had no idea was going to happen even when it happened. I hate her.
So I have been doing so well and been so functional and happy and at peace and then as usual I see a therapist and my life turns to shit. I called suicide prevention like the mental health people said to, but they had no suggestions for the fact that i was so triggered by the therapist that i wa shaving (and am still having) derealization - everything is very grey and muted, I cannot feel my body, and everything is sorta of darker like it's far away. I don't have skills for this. So I wanted to kill myself. I cannot get better. There are no good therapists and no help. i cannot learn this on my own - I contact all the programs and hospitals but what I need doesn't exist. I was trying to figure out what to do so I thought the crisis number would help, but she had nothing to say besides go to the E/R so I hung up. An hour later out of the blue the police arroved, triggering me even more. That has never happened to me before. I feel like a failure, I moved here and was doing well and then I went to therapy ans as always I got insane afterwards and had no suppoprt and I am suicidal.
I talked to a trauma specialist profressor at SUNY New Paltz (see, I don't give up) and she said the only treatment for trauma that works is something called Pat Rifts or something, a cognitive thing, so I had my therapist in VT look it up and it's for traumatic brain injury, which I don't have. It is also based on immediately going in and attacking the traumas faceon. I think that would kill me. I don't have skills for flahsbacks, for depersonalization, etc. I need to be safe with myself first. The other thing everyone wants to offer is EMDR - but that doesn't work if you are hypervigilant or dissociated according to this trauma expert - I have done it and never felt a thing change, so she's right, but EMDR is what all the shrinks who say that are trauma specialists do.
So my VT therapist says I need to look for a dissociative states therapist who can work on safety and coming to the room and being with myself and not wanting to get safe/kill myself. MORE WORK.
I am having her fill out forms for the hospopitalization day program - it's DBT all day which is what I did in VT. That program is the only thing that helped me become "normal" and able to live with my feelings. I hope I get in.
I feel helpless and hopeless 110%. I want to die because I cannot get better, there is no safe therapist and I will not get the skills I need.
Sorry, it's just a motherfucker of a day. I hate myself.
I guess I should read the book you're reading, Sarsha, but what i want is something that tells me what to DO to make this stop and to feel safe. I don't want anymore info on trauma and what it does to me. I want to learn to feel better. I cannot take this anymore. I feel like I should die because I cannot make this derealization and suicidality go away and no one is trained to help me and I am tired of this. No one canm love me like this, I cannot work or drive, I am crazy, I make no sense, it must be frustrating and awful for anyone near me, and they only get pushed away if I tell them what I am feeling and then I hate myself more.
I was thinking last night, if PTSD leads to either therapy or alcoholism, and I did 19 desperate years of shitty therapies, then maybe I need to be an alcoholic. I have TRIED, I have given it my all, been gullible as hell, took every pill and saw every program I was told to see and I got worse. So if therapy is bad for me, what can I do? Heroin again.
Oh crap! Yesterday I wrote
Oh crap! Yesterday I wrote a very long and impassioned reply about everything from shitty therapists to the old testament, but now I see that it got erased somehow and never posted. I am sorry! I really meant to be supportive and in solidarity of you Awen, so I hate it that my post got lost. And sorry about the "test post" above, I put that up there just to make sure I could post at all, and apparently you can't delete posts, you can only edit them, and when I tried erasing the content it told me there must be content and that I might be a spammer. Fuck it.
Anyway, I was so sorry to hear about your experience, Awen. You have inspired me and made me think about topics that I desperately need to think about, and YOU ARE NOT A LOSER. It is totally understandable for us to think we are losers and that we are worthless when the system fucks us over. But it is the system's fault that it does so very little for trauma survivors when there are so many of us out there. I was intrigued by what Paula said about Holocaust survivors possible doing better WITHOUT therapy. Wow! That actually blew my mind. But it made sense, too. Because conventional therapy just never seems to be geared for trauma survivors. Therapists don't understand trauma, at least any of the ones I've seen.
I am glad you get to do the dbt again and I hope it helps. One of the simplest and most realistic goals that I want to eventually advocate for is to make dbt available to everyone who needs it. Even though I live in a densely populated area within driving distance of THREE moderately sized cities, I cannot get into dbt! So I hope the group you will be starting in is okay.
Well, I have to go soon to see the couples therapist, but I wanted to stop in and say that I'm here, and I'm thinking about you. Take care! I will be eating dark chocolate for folks too (the only "sweet I allow myself). Mary
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Oh geez Awen I am so sorry
Oh geez Awen I am so sorry that happened. Your new ex-therapist sucks. But you know that. Cops with their flashy blue lights and addiction to harrassing street kids. And somewhat lesser known addiction to answering suicide calls. WTF.
I wish I knew the answer or even a little bit of it. If I did, you could have some. I hope you have a cat nearby and lots and lots of dark chocolate. Or if you want, I could eat enough for the both of us. (Please say yes).
You're right, we should find some more directly healing, doing books. I know I need a break...you and my psychiatrist are right its hard to read all this stuff and a break or more of a focus on practical strategies are good. Have you heard of Cheri Huber? Shes not specific to trauma more of a zen buddhist lady, but I think I'm going to order a couple of her books on line. I'll post to Book List if you're interested. She has one called there is nothing wrong with you. What a refreshing concept.
Hope you are well Awen and employing all of your wisdom and grace to your situation at hand. i'll be looking for more titles on doing things.
I'm sorry things are going
I'm sorry things are going so badly, Awen. What your therapist said was so hurtful and unfair, I don't know how such people become therapists. I don't even like therapists who pass judgement on how traumatic/untraumatic an event was, because they weren't there, that's a judgement they can't make, they should be observant about how things affected you, or listen to what you feel. And obviously any violent situation has the potential to be traumatic, she is just a stupid person and put that out of your mind. That's the thing about disclosing, if it's the wrong person they make a judgement based on their narrow view of the world instead of trying to see it from your point of view.
I do notice that inspite of how bad you feel you seem to be a real fighter in that you keep trying to find help somewhere. Also, I know this may seem hard, but you may be able to find something that steadies you, like nature, I think now you have nature at your doorstep, and can you just be outside and listen to whatever noises or smells or sights, and really focus on something outside of yourself. Or, do some art. Just some ideas. I'm guessing that for you, you're not at a place where reading these books is safe, so I think Sarsha's idea is a good one, to have a thread regarding self-care, and that needs to be your exclusive focus, finding activities that really make you feel safe and well.
One thing my new therapist mentioned, I'm just mentioning this, she said that houlocaust survivors who did not receive therapy did better. I don't know if this is accurate or where she gets this from. I only mention this because so much of therapy seems to point towards reliving stuff as the cure for everything, and I don't think that is always so, or perhaps it's just something you do at certain times. I think it's not a fair assumption to say we all have to go back, and that's the only way to get better. Especially if it makes you really feel unstable. Maybe focusing on the here and now for a while would be better for you. Just a thought. For myself, I've just arrived at kind of a turning point and things are changing, so I am looking at stuff more. But I think that is personal for everyone, and I do now feel I have an inner "rudder" that kind of prompts me where to go, and most of the time I feel it will warn me if there's a problem in the plan. That's kind of new for me. but I also have activities that really really help. I love painting. I am starting to see an art therapist, don't know if you've looked into that. It just seems really safe, and the non-verbal aspect seems less threatening.
Those are just my thoughts, hope you start to feel better.
Paula
Hola ladies, Thank you for
Hola ladies,
Thank you for your concern. I am burnt OUT. I tend to personalize the stuff therapists say to me (obviously if I believed I was abused by a satanic cult with no memories). And I had to sopend yesterday dealing with very hostile mental health assoc. bitches who take no responisibilty for their information they gave me, so I am not doing their DBT or trauma recovery things. I guess according to SUNY New Paltz trauma psychology department the ONLY thing that works for trauma is head first therapy called Patty Rishk cognitive processing therapy, but it sounds awful. So I called my insurance company, and they were helpful, I had to apologize at the end to the nurse helping me because I was used to being treated like dirt by mental health assholes all day. Anyway she said I should go to a trauma speciality hopsital for inpatient, and there is one I have wanted to attend called two rivers in kansas city and she said they'd cover it if i did an intake. I am kinda blown away by this because I never expected that chance.
I also called my VT therapist Gerri and asked her to fill out the stuff to get me in the local hospital DBT program. And then I made a ton of calls and found a therapist I am seeing Friday who doesn't sound evil. She said that she does CBT style stuff and is a trauma specialist, but I liked her. She said "You have no reason to trust me" (she wasn't defensive and angry when I told her my main trigger is therapy, like everyone else I call is) - she said that she wanted me to tell her if I needed to leave therapy, and to go - like if we did 2 minutes and i got triggered and felt awful, to leave and get safe. Wow! She says that she believes that reliving the trauma is bad - and this is what my psychiatrist who specializes in PTSD had always said - Retelling the stories reinforces the chemcials inthe brain that respond to trauma - people with PTSD have 6 times more neuro pathways for fear than others. So therapy cannpot be able reinforcing fear but about reprograming the brain. she saod me telling the stories would just strengthen those pathways of fear and cause me to psychiologically feel it was happening again and that doesn't help at all. that's what the doc had said and i trust him. So she said she wants to work on me first trusting her and then to have a notebook where i jot down when i am dissociating or anxious and then when i get to where i can know when it is happening, to learn skills to do to mstop the process. she said i never need to tell her a trauma, it is not necessary to heal. she also said that she loves her work and if i am not happy with her, she doesn't want me to stay with her. i said (nervous because for some reason these shit therapists don't hear me when i say this) "I have such an intensely physiological reaction to therapists I won't be able to tell if you are abusive or safe. So I think I need you to tell me if you are helping me." And she said "Then I am going to ask lots of questions to make sure you're Ok and if I am harming you, I'll help you get another therapist." Huh.
Like the MHA bitch - They told me to call that number for help with derealization! No one told me ever that cops would come - and now the MHA says they didn't give me that number! And then I talked to yet another wellness coordinator there about community services and she offered nothing but telling me to call my insurance co. I said I hoped she'd have a recommendation of a trauma specialist, what they did, and groups in the area, etc. Instead she said "I am kind enough to talk to you out of the goodness of my heart (guilt guilt)." and then bitched me out. So I finally said "I am not trying to argue with you" (GOOD she yelled) "but I am trying to get a concrete idea of what I need to do to work effectively with you. And you're not doingt his as a favor to mem, this is your paid job." She kept telling me that when I did my intake with the other MHA wellness cordinator who didn't help me I should have developed a relationship with that woman before doing anything else. So I said, "Well, I was told to do an intake with her which I did, I was very clear that group mindfulness triggers me, and the next day she had me attend an anxiety group doing mindfulness." She says, "well ypou should have written that down." and I said, "I am not trying to argue, I want to know the proper steps. So I was supposed to hand her it written down?" "NO! You should have developed a relationship so she'd know your needs." "But she told me to join that group the next day, she didn't ask me to meet with her again. So to develop the relationship that you say will make this more effective, what do I need to do?" "I am not going to do this for you, you a smart woman, figure it out!" Me: "But I am very dissociated right now and I need clear directions on how to do this the right way since you're saying I did it wrong and that's why the anxiety group didn't work. Should I have weekly meetings with a welnness coordinator?" Her: "No, it is not black and white!" Me: "I am sorry, but I don't know what you're telling me the right thing to get help is to do." She says "Well come in and do an intake with me." Me: "Ok, and that will lead to what?" Her: "Connecting you to the community" Me: "Well I told you what sort of therapist and groups I am seeking and you said you don't do that, so I am wondering what the meeting's purpose is." Her: "So I can get to know your needs!" Me: "Can you tell me what you want to know because I have been very clear with 3 members of your organization with my needs and I am not sure what role you play in meeting them. What can you help me with and how do we do that?" SHE WAS A BITCH. She also told me I didn't have insurance via my Mom, because she didn't get me as a dependant and I said "Yes she did, my doctor filled it out, the medical trust of her church approved it, they chose an insurance and I have used it already." Then she told me I shouldn't be getting SSI and that I'd have to pay it all back. I said "I did an honent inatke at SSA in town last week. They already sent me me a check." And she says "Well you need to work with a benefits specialists to make sure you don't have to pay it back." WHO IS THIS WOMAN? see, they know they are useless and then they get defensive and attack. I HATE HER.
I say the right things, "I am highly dissociated right now and need clear understanding of what you're asking me to do" and being honest, "my main triggter is therapists and ity's not your fault, but I will probably hate you and be terrified of you, because you are my trigger." and then they get mad. it's like, If a blue hose was my trigger they'd understand, but they hate thinking one of THEM could be a trigger. And if they cannot be mature enough to handle that, then fuck them.
One thing i have learned is that nonprofit and public mental health places tend to SUCK. So if you can, get the rich therapists with nice waiting rooms.
I am exhausted. Be well everyone. Oh BTW the cops were AWESOME, I was so shocked, I think I am sending a thank you card. The guys was like "I do not want to trigger you, so if I start to, please tell me and I'll stop." and he said "may I ask what your trauma is about?" and I said "No" and he said "That's totally OK, I understand." Then he went into a thing about how he became a cop to serve his community and he is here to help me so if I need anything to please contact him. he was so respectful and compassionate, I was thrown off. like he ahd training in this???? When did that happen?
Strange world. Love and peace and kitties and chocolate, Heather
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
Heather, Weird! Cops with
Heather,
Weird! Cops with sensitivity! Mental health workers without any! We live in a crazy crazy world. I'm glad you found a new therapist so quickly (good work!) and she sounds more respectful and aware of your needs so far. Thank god. My ex therapist had a simialr attitude as that, which I think is why I stuck with it-I was so close to never going back on many occassions. Everytime I mentioned quitting to her she said there are many ways to go about healing and therapy isn't for everyone. She emphasized that whatever modality I chose, the important thing is to find a way to express mysef whether through art or writing or talking. hmmm. I still am chewing on that. Anyways. Get some rest and take care!
H., your reply came in while
H., your reply came in while I was typing. That SUCKS about the place you were dealing with to try to get dbt and other services. It sounds kind of like the circles I was being made to run in at UNC to get into dbt, and yes, I decided that even if I am able to get into their program in the future, I will not do it because I don't want to deal with them and their lies and manipulation. Public mental health does suck. I am fortunate to be able to at least go to couples therapy with a really good private therapist who does have one of those nice attractive waiting rooms. I am about to leave to see her today. Take care (again!) Mary
Hearing your account of your
Hearing your account of your conversation with that woman makes me think I should take lessons from you on clear and purposeful communication. If you don't get what you need, that it is certainly not for want of good communication skills on your part. My problem is, I back down and get intimidated, and then suddenly I'm less intelligent than I really am. It sounds like you handle yourself really well. Well, I hope you find someone good amongst all the idiots. I have given up on free therapy for now, I am working, so I am able to pay something. I am going every other week, which frankly, is as often as I can afford but also as much as I can handle right now.
i am not sure where I
i am not sure where I suddenly got the communication skills, but I know I tend to be dissociated when I talk to scary people and if I get very clear answers, I feel better. Thing is, that usually upsets people because they don't really know WHAT they do. I am big on lists when I see a doctor or therapist since I will dissociate there.
Some I got from DBT - the big thing they teach is very simple.
"when you.... (say the exact details of what they did, facts only) i feel ... (give some info so they understand where yoou're at) ... i want (not need) .... (give a concrete description of the behavior that will help) or i will... (consequences, like only call you once a month or not go to your house etc)" IT WORKS. I guess I understood it because my exhusband and I had a big fight when married where he said I didn't appreciate him, and so I did all sorts of things to make him feel appreciated. But then he still said I didn't appreciate him! I asked what he was saying and he said "When I work late hours you make a lot of noise in the kitchen in the morning and wake me up." I never would have thought that was what he'd been asking for! Also he talked quite a bit about us being "family" and I liked that, but then I realized his idea of family and mine are very different. Now I ask everyone to define their terms. Communication is very tricky and I realize that with everyone having issues and pasts and stuff, we all hear the same thing differently.
There is a great book my last psychiatrist had me read called Crucial Conversations and it teaches you how to be able to say hard things and preserve the relationship. DBT has actual checklists you can do to see how assertive you need to be in a certain situaion for people like me who are lost. DBT is just crib notes for life.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
I need to look into DBT.
I need to look into DBT. Why am I so ignorant of all these therapies? I guess because my pdoc is useless and just feeds me drugs. What does it stand for? I have to look into that. If it has to do with interpersonal communication, then I really need it.
DBT
dialectic behavioral therapy created by marsha linehan
the gist is this: Radical acceptance heals - when you say "i accept this is what I have to deal with" (not condone or approval of it) you stop being stuck. DBT teaches the skills for handling big emotions and being effective. They remind us that the world isnt how it SHOULD be, it is not fair, and all we can do is try to be effective in gettingour needs met in spite of that.
the skills are: emotional regulation, interpersonal skills, distress tolerance, and mindfulness. most hospitals have day programs in this.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
Awen I found a workbook for
Awen I found a workbook for DBT online what do you think of doing it on your own? is it easier at home or is it something that works better in a class?
Oh, clearly what I need.
Oh, clearly what I need. Thank you. I so need this. Dammit. Ok, that is my project for the weekend. Figure out where. Thank you Awen.
I did an online search for
I did an online search for therapists in Toronto who practice DBT, and I found someone just around the corner who's website makes him look like a possibility for me. My friend said not to pay for it, find a program through a hospital or something, but a) I hate groups, too, Awen, b) Stuff then is hard to work around my schedule because I work c)In addition I feel I need one on one counselling anyway, so why not see one person who has DBT in their repertoire.
I also don't think I can wait around for my pdoc to get back in town and then for her to refer me for something, when she is slow and kind of useless. I am seeing my symptoms affecting the way I behave at work so I can either go back on tonnes of meds and pretend that that works, I can stop going to work (it would be hard to go on disability at this point because I have been non-compliant and my symptoms aren't severe enough), or I can find someone ASAP and pay for it myself. His fees are more than I can afford weekly, but he offers sliding scale and maybe I can go every other week once I've gotten the hang of some of the principles of the therapy. I had started seeing an expressive arts therapist because I was trying to find something that was self-directed and that I wouldn't experience as intrusive and someone who wouldn't just trigger all my issues by pressuring me to disclose my past. She does seem like a good person and has experience with trauma, but I don't feel certain she's going to help me quickly enough. I like the idea of something that will help me gain control of my emotional responses in the present day, because my symptoms show themselves at work and I take my work very seriously and I cannot bare to be making mistakes because I am ill.
What is the name of the book you found, Sarsha? How is everyone else doing with therapy/finding a therapist?
The workbook i found is
The workbook i found is this:
http://www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/15...
Looks promising. Awen have you tried it?
Can I ask what symptoms are returning? I'm in the same boat with the therapist hunt. I found someone who seems like shed be great- she does emdr and has expeience diagnosing and treating dissociative disorders. But she doesn't take state insurance. Sliding scale is available, but that would mean every other week. I am waiting to hear back from another therapist who is out of town. But i am feeling so normal on medication at this point its like it was all a bad dream. It would be nice to just forget about the whole thign...business as usual.
Whats art therapy like? Do you like it?
YIPES, I just somehow
YIPES, I just somehow navigated to this page without being logged in! How could this happen? Can you double-check the settings, Sarsha? I took for granted that this stuff couldn't be viewed by anyone else. I only realized I wasn't logged in because it wouldn't let me reply. I don't get it. Although I have sometimes wondered why some posts show so many views when there are only 4 of us.
Anyway, er, by symptoms I am refering really just to my emotionality, I think. Symptoms as in way over the top sense of frustration and rage which I'm not really moderating well. I called them symptoms because I think it's PTSD, I'm not responding to the present day, on some level. I don't know. it may also be withdrawal. Since some bad stuff happened at work, I'm just trying I guess to explain it to myself, kind of like if I got the right therapy then I'd never make mistakes or something. Well, anyway I guess it is helpful to recognize that my responses to daily stesses are out of proportion, or rather than that I'll say maybe I'm entitled to my anger but the way I am handling it is not helpful. It's hard to have perspective on my own behaviour, but I had a great conversation with a friend at work today, I told her for the first time that I have been on AD's and going off them since March, and she was really cool about it and apparently doctors have been trying to push meds on her all her life but she's resisted. She's 23, and so much more mature than I was at that age. I know she gets depressed. I don't think anyone could ever manipulate her. She is an incredibly strong person, so I try to learn from her. Anyway, she said she'd noticed I was changing, and she liked the fact that I was being more assertive, but she'd seen lately that I was getting more stressed about things that didn't seem that important to her.
The DBT therapist I contacted already returned my e-mail, he asked me to tell him what I felt I could afford. I just feel somehow wrong suggesting half his regular rate, I mean that seems disrespectful or devaluing, so I'm going to suggest every other week at full price or close to, and just see how he responds to that.
The art therapist I've only met with twice. The first session was just talking, the second I brought some drawings I'd done and we discussed them. I don't think that would be a typical art therapy session so I don't know how it would normally go. It's called "expressive arts therapy" so I guess not restricted to visual art. She used to run an art therapy program in a trauma clinic at a hospital here. In the beginning, I was really adamant about not wanting to discuss the past and being self-directed, and she was super-respectful of that, but now I'm worried there wont be enough structure and I wont make progress. But I wonder if that's just because I'm feeling bad about myself right now, since what happened last week. I feel I'm no longer qualified to decide what I need...but there's nothing wrong with shopping around a little more. I guess next time I'll let her direct things a bit so I get a better sense of what she has to offer. I certainly can't afford both, so I'll be forced to choose at some point. I sometimes like the idea of a male therapist. Because my abuser was a man, I think forming a trusting relationship with a man could be really healing.
I wonder whether you need to feel bound to exploring this right now if the meds are working. There is nothing wrong with just enjoying life. Although my friend said she thought one should set up a relationship with a therapist when you're well, so that when you are in trouble the support is already in place. i guess there is wisdom in this. I know when I am in crisis I have less ability to be discerning in finding someone appropriate. It does make sense to do the shopping around when you are feeling well.
Thanks for posting the link for the book. I'll check that out.
That is the workbook I
That is the workbook I did. I think I learned the skills better in a group class honestly or one on one, but it is a good book. I usually learn everything from books, but this needed some DBT program leader to help mke apply it correctly when I felt stuck.
I say get a therapist when feeling well - You are thinking much clearer. Trying to get help when in crisis makes a crisis much worse.
In Toronto (my fave city I have lived in) I did an art therapy group that knocked my socks off at the Barbara Schiffer center on College. But the wait list is long. I have worked one on one with some famous art therapists and it was not helpful with my symptoms at all, but I liked doing art.
"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." -William Blake
Mary, I will try to remember
Mary, I will try to remember to ask her where she found that out about holocaust survivors. I think the point is, revisiting stuff is not always helpful, especially if it is really, really bad. Worth thinking about.